tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post5175352476558195712..comments2023-10-11T04:38:30.748-07:00Comments on Reconciling Saints: The great baby question... and my answer to it...Ceci Virtuehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-46692741477583865462008-09-29T13:00:00.000-07:002008-09-29T13:00:00.000-07:00@ALVenable - So that's where all the vodka's been ...@ALVenable - So that's where all the vodka's been going?! And here I thought there was a hole in my bottle. I'll be more than happy to blame it on you.<BR/><BR/>So you would say that from early on you didn't want any, but... why? Is it that you don't like them or that you just wanted a different life than that? I'm always curious as to why people choose what they do. <BR/><BR/>It doesn't help that... ok is it just me or does it seem a lot (and maybe just that it's the worst that we remember therefore giving all the others a bad name?) of parents just are doing more harm than good in how they're raising their kids? Like the snowflake issue/ helicopter parent issue?? That and...time out?! I'm still not a big fan. It may work on certain occasions but on the whole it doesn't really seem to work well. <BR/><BR/>I just... find it funny that parents are trying to reason with a child that has not learned reason, has not learned logic. <BR/><BR/>That's a whole different story though...Ceci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-1974490138616676452008-09-29T12:53:00.000-07:002008-09-29T12:53:00.000-07:00@Chloé - Funny isn't it? How everything changes so...@Chloé - Funny isn't it? How everything changes so much in just a bit of time? <BR/><BR/>This would have been a good conversation for the pizza place and a bucket o' wine. <BR/><BR/>Out of curiousity, and you can email this to me for privacy if you'd like, but what are your reasons for children? I'm always curious.Ceci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-8541422535079901412008-09-29T12:04:00.000-07:002008-09-29T12:04:00.000-07:00Great post Chloe! I'm not a breeder, but it's sure...Great post Chloe! I'm not a breeder, but it's sure nice to see an objective and intelligent statement coming from one. And all my best to you in starting your future family. (People like you make good parents.)<BR/><BR/>www.kidfreeandlovinit.comUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06651005324274299778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-53807661873698173292008-09-29T08:21:00.000-07:002008-09-29T08:21:00.000-07:00@ALVenable said..."It's great that you're having t...@ALVenable said...<BR/>"It's great that you're having the dialogue with yourself"<BR/><BR/><BR/>Wouldn't that be a monologue? :-D<BR/><BR/>Dia=2<BR/>Mono=1thedr9wningmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018349076140532362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-3944370772098988292008-09-28T20:29:00.000-07:002008-09-28T20:29:00.000-07:00I can't really remember a time when I wanted to ha...I can't really remember a time when I wanted to have kids. On my blog, I call myself a Wacky Spinster because the Devil will be wearing ice skates before I decide to have kids.<BR/><BR/>It's great that you're having the dialogue with yourself, though, and thinking it through. It's too bad more folks who <I>do</I> choose to have kids don't do the same and weigh the decision more seriously. <BR/><BR/>Like the others who have commented, you'll definitely encounter more child-free folks (or folks who are older and their kids are out on their own) as you get out around PDX. We're out here...drinking up all the vodka. <BR/><BR/>Or, maybe that's just me. ;)ALVenablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09198443241279934124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-43330280869989504952008-09-28T14:34:00.000-07:002008-09-28T14:34:00.000-07:00As a future breeder, I have also had a complete se...As a future breeder, I have also had a complete sea change in the last year as my child-free friends have moved away, and I have started hanging out more with my boyfriend's friends who have young children. And I find, to my relief, that I actually like these people, and their children. Having almost hit the two-year mark in our relationship, they now feel comfortable asking the question, "So have you two talked about getting married and having children?" But it's okay, because the question was expected, and when the answer is "yes" as a woman at least, you almost can't wait for someone to ask.<BR/><BR/>I think you and I were thinking a lot about this subject around the same time, and we made different decisions. Not long ago, both of us were in the "maybe someday" category, and now both of us have made decisions about what we want. And, lucky for both of us, our decisions coincide with those of our respective boyo's. But it is strange, and a bit unnerving, how just making the decision changes things so much. I am not engaged, married or pregnant, and it will be awhile before I can actually call myself a breeder. And you, as far as I know, have undergone no medical procedures since I last saw you preventing you from having children. But already our social lives are different, and it may be a coincidence having more to do with you guys moving, but I think that's only part of the explanation.<BR/><BR/>One more thing- Da5id, please don't try to stop offending people. I think it's much funnier if everybody says what they mean. I love seeing how offended people get if one person on a message board dares to communicate a sentiment not couched in 4 or 5 qualifying statements:<BR/><BR/>"kidsr4me says: you childless people lead meaningless hollow lives!<BR/><BR/>kidssuck says: So do you, plus you're boring nd covered in spit-up!<BR/><BR/>havekidsnhate'em says: I miss my old life. I never finished my novel!<BR/><BR/>menopausal_regrets says: So alone...so alone."<BR/><BR/>Now that's a message board.Marginaliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06025116429885015727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-4295106133833339212008-09-27T10:13:00.000-07:002008-09-27T10:13:00.000-07:00@Δημήτριος ο Ταξιδευτής - Thank you very much! I'm...@Δημήτριος ο Ταξιδευτής - Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoy my posts, and I truly love the poem. It <I>is</I> quite inspirational.<BR/><BR/>Cheers!Ceci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-50239405592235856112008-09-26T07:58:00.000-07:002008-09-26T07:58:00.000-07:00have a nice weekend and a poem for future inspirat...have a nice weekend and a poem for future inspiration<BR/>keep up the good posting<BR/><BR/>You said,<BR/>“I will go to another place, to another shore.<BR/>Another city can be found that’s better than this.<BR/>All that I struggle for is doomed, condemned to failure;<BR/>and my heart is like a corpse interred.<BR/>How long will my mind stagger under this misery?<BR/>Wherever I turn, wherever I look<BR/>I see the blackened ruins of my life,<BR/>which for years on end I squandered and wrecked and ravaged”.<BR/>You will find no other place, no other shores.<BR/>This city will possess you, and you’ll wander the samestreets.<BR/>In these same neighborhoods you’ll grow old;<BR/>in these same houses you’ll turn gray.<BR/>Always you’ll return to this city.<BR/>Don’t even hope for another.<BR/>There’s no boat for you, there’s no other way out.<BR/>In the way you’ve destroyed your life here,<BR/>in this little corner,<BR/>you’ve destroyed it everywhere else.<BR/><BR/>Constantine P. Cavafybrexianshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08459318879386205924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-54596003399248964902008-09-25T17:53:00.000-07:002008-09-25T17:53:00.000-07:00Sounds more "flakey" than "snowflakey"!Sounds more "flakey" than "snowflakey"!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06651005324274299778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-76385589975162401412008-09-24T09:59:00.000-07:002008-09-24T09:59:00.000-07:00re: @ kidfree kaye AGAIN!:All that snowflake bollo...re: @ kidfree kaye AGAIN!:<BR/><BR/>All that snowflake bollocks is tiptoeing around the ego. It is nonsense. People do it, sure, but it isn't necessary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-7067750209706285582008-09-23T23:58:00.000-07:002008-09-23T23:58:00.000-07:00@ kidfree kaye AGAIN!:Oh and I forgot! I'm not sur...@ kidfree kaye AGAIN!:<BR/>Oh and I forgot! I'm not sure where the term comes from exactly, but the boyo uses Snowflake all the time. As in you think of your kid as a Unique little Snowflake, ie, most individual, most unique, and my little snowflake. Everyone thinks that they're little angel is unique and it goes along with being a helicopter parent in that your kid is unique and NEEDS this extra help, etc. Like, little Bobby does things at his own pace; don't push him or it will scare him, etc. I also like to use this term with certain adults... but... you get the picture?<BR/><BR/>If you want a better understanding of this... I could get you in touch with the boyo. He has LOTS to say on the subject!Ceci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-48063920041167099252008-09-23T23:34:00.000-07:002008-09-23T23:34:00.000-07:00Coidric:Thank you...for always being you. Anal and...Coidric:<BR/>Thank you...for always being you. Anal and oral...hahahahahah! Some of the christian kids will try to convince you that it's not even SEX and that they're still virgins! Give me a BREAK!<BR/><BR/>Anyway, yeah... I've been thinking a lot about this... and it's not so much a rethinking of it...as it is a ...rethinking of it. Heh! If you know what I mean... It's not that I might change my mind it just that... why the split?! Why the great divide?! Why can't they understand (and by they I mean both sides)?<BR/><BR/>I really should look into the kidfree resource thing, shouldn't I?! It sort of struck me as I was typing it that... well, really that's not too bad of an idea and both groups could benefit (as I know my fair share of people that would love a place that's adult only).Ceci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-14243056897245500102008-09-23T23:29:00.000-07:002008-09-23T23:29:00.000-07:00kat, I know that if anyone would understand this, ...kat, I know that if anyone would understand this, you would! In fact, had you come over on Sunday, it wouldn't have just been your boyo who was subjected to the drunken precursor to this post. If anything, I think you might be one who is closest to understanding the confusion and such here. and this post... is just the tip of the iceberg! There's so much more to bring up... but I was trying to be concise and... well, focused. The longer rant about this is very long and windy and ... doesn't usually have a point. <BR/><BR/>Wine some time soon to think out our thoughts and just celebrate the us that we are???Ceci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-28975644838715600662008-09-23T23:26:00.000-07:002008-09-23T23:26:00.000-07:00liz, darling, it's not to say that I didn't think ...liz, darling, it's not to say that I didn't think you did. Perhaps I should have made caveats for you and leigh and dora... maybe? I think you guys are a very understanding to me and mine. and thank you for being one of the ones who asks, "are you sure you want to do this???"<BR/><BR/>I heart youCeci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-9104460278155131252008-09-23T23:24:00.000-07:002008-09-23T23:24:00.000-07:00@kidfree kaye: thanks! Seriously, thanks for your ...@kidfree kaye: thanks! Seriously, thanks for your feedback. I took your survey and am going to check out the site you linked to. It's not so much that I'm losing friends, as, like I've said, all the new ones I've met are kidfree as well. It's one of those times when I didn't think there would be such a large chasm (as in, in this day and age? REALLY!?) I think this post came about for me trying to find some answers and not being very happy with what I found. I mean, shouldn't we ALL have a bit more understanding?Ceci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-75510139820951715652008-09-23T16:22:00.000-07:002008-09-23T16:22:00.000-07:00I'm a part of the non-kid PDX contingency, for the...I'm a part of the non-kid PDX contingency, for the record.<BR/><BR/>On that note: I have the same issues. Some of my best friends turned into breeders. That means I don't see them much. <BR/><BR/>The people you've met here aren't breeders because, simply, the breeders don't get out much. Once they have kids, priorities change, as does their social calendars. Simply put: you're not going to meet many hermits in the world; instead, you meet people who leave their house. Breeders are tied up with their kids in their homes and struggling to work to feed them.<BR/><BR/>I have chosen to not have kids for several reasons. The number one reason is that I feel that many people who have kids do it for the wrong reasons: they want a mini-me (which is an ego projection), they want meaning in their life, they're simply irresponsible, etc.<BR/><BR/>Having a kid doesn't make any sense to me (to <I>me</I>). I feel that I can impart wisdom on the younger generation without sacrificing my sanity in the process.<BR/><BR/>Lastly, when people breed, it creates the need for resource extraction and economic growth. I am against those things, so chose not to do it. And for those that say 'if you only have one' that you're doing the planet a favour, it is false: the breeding cycle is 15-20 years, the death cycle is 70-80 years. That's four generations of single-kid families. That's growth.<BR/><BR/>On your overthinking and hesitancy to provide non-child resources: why not? There are plenty of people who would rather not deal with the noise and chaos that children bring into a space. I can't stand going to the Laurelwood because there is so much high-pitched screaming and crying. I'm sorry, but that's not pleasant to me. Nothing against kids, but those who have them know that they're loud, messy, squealing bags of snot and chaos. They love them for it. But that doesn't mean that I have to.<BR/><BR/>No, I'd rather travel and learn from the world. If I want kids, I'll adopt, thankyouverymuch.<BR/><BR/>Anal and oral, man... that's the solution to overpopulation.thedr9wningmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018349076140532362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-15711402886740224062008-09-23T13:57:00.000-07:002008-09-23T13:57:00.000-07:00I've struggled with this conundrum for years. I ha...I've struggled with this conundrum for years. I had always wanted to have children, there wasn't any reason for me NOT to want to have them. I like them. What I learned, however, as I became older and had more experience with parents, especially parents my own age, is that to raise children correctly(or attempt to) takes a tremendous amount of time, energy, and effort. I had to really sit down and decide if the things in my life I would have to give up, in order to raise children properly, were worth the sacrifice. In the end I decided they were worth keeping and suppressed my "clock"...the gods know I couldn't do it on my own, nor wanted to, and I hadn't been in a relationship for ages that was nearly half stable enough to bring a child into(and do I count my blessings for NOT being bound to any of those past relationships through blood....holy cow!).<BR/><BR/>Soon my body will make the decision for me and at this point I think I'm more upset about the choice being taken away from me than acting on it. I'm fine with my ol crotch-crucifix for the time being...and I could always adopt later if I change my mind ::shrug:: I'm adopted...and I didn't turn out too terribly! :P That and drink out of sippy-cups to get it out of my system!<BR/><BR/>I think the difference in the south, as opposed to the north, is an economic one. It is rather easy to make the decision to have children when you know you can comfortably afford them. Many of your friends here would take a pretty huge financial hit if they chose to raise a child, and there are a lot things to do and places to go and things to see that distract us from settling down...<BR/><BR/><BR/>I reserve the right to change my mind or deny any of this in March. I keep having dreams about coming back from Prague with a baby(outside not inside). Serious.~:{ ... }:~https://www.blogger.com/profile/02904498606468111641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-9538160621376769952008-09-23T11:55:00.001-07:002008-09-23T11:55:00.001-07:00as a Breeder, I get it! And I have to say, I woul...as a Breeder, I get it! And I have to say, I would NEVER tell someone they should have kids. If anything, I lean more to the "are you REALLY sure you are ready/want kids?" Which isn't to say I don't love my monkey to bits. But it's the hardest effing J-O-B in the world and if you ain't ready, those ankle-biters will eat you alive.<BR/>And believe me, I feel the pressure to add that it's all worth it at the end of the day. But come on! Some days, I am LIVING for bedtime so I can get some peace and quiet (and a vodka tonic).<BR/>Kudos to you for making the decision that's best for you and your boyo!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-38335383105243508282008-09-23T11:55:00.000-07:002008-09-23T11:55:00.000-07:00as a Breeder, I get it! And I have to say, I woul...as a Breeder, I get it! And I have to say, I would NEVER tell someone they should have kids. If anything, I lean more to the "are you REALLY sure you are ready/want kids?" Which isn't to say I don't love my monkey to bits. But it's the hardest effing J-O-B in the world and if you ain't ready, those ankle-biters will eat you alive.<BR/>And believe me, I feel the pressure to add that it's all worth it at the end of the day. But come on! Some days, I am LIVING for bedtime so I can get some peace and quiet (and a vodka tonic).<BR/>Kudos to you for making the decision that's best for you and your boyo!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-91116657698469797792008-09-23T11:54:00.000-07:002008-09-23T11:54:00.000-07:00Your situation sounds like mine. I thought I would...Your situation sounds like mine. I thought I would have children someday, but my boyfriend - who didn't really want them - made me think long and hard about why I "wanted" them. The last thing I wanted to do was leave him to hopefully find a guy I loved just as much who did want kids and would be a good parent. (I know a woman who did this, and is still single and 50 years old.)<BR/><BR/>The main thing is, I couldn't come up with any good reasons to HAVE children, other than the challenge and purpose they seem to give you (which I have plenty of trying to run my OWN career and life.) The other reasons, like "everyone else is having them", "I don't want to be lonely in old age" and "my siblings would love some cousins for their kids" didn't seem to be good enough reasons to commit to a lifetime of being a parent. Plus, I do not like the direction parenting is going these days (i.e. Helicopter Parenting) and don't want to join the group. (By the way, what is "snowflaking"?)<BR/><BR/>Anyway, so I decided to remain childfree, and - now in my mid-40s - am happy to say that I made the right decision. It's not always easy (like during the holidays), but it's definitely not easy being a parent 24/7/365 either. I have joined several childfree groups online, and one of them (childfree.net) is quite an interesting group to communicate with. Yes, some of them are negative and rant about bad parents and kids, but many of us are normal people people who love our nieces and nephews and friends' kids, just don't want our own.<BR/><BR/>I am writing a book called "Kidfree & Lovin' It." I have an online survey that over 2,400 CFs around the world have taken, and would love you and your childless friends to take it too! Just click on this link to take you there, and you can remain anonymous if you like:<BR/>http://tinyurl.com/Kidfree-Survey<BR/><BR/>I also have a website that lists other childfree websites & groups, books and article links, as well as some resorts that are childfree: www.kidfreeandlovinit.com<BR/><BR/>I think your idea for a website with childfree places is good, as I am thinking of doing my next book on "Kidfree Travel." Thanks, and enjoy Ceci!<BR/><BR/>Kidfree Kaye in CaliforniaUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06651005324274299778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-15954815712124949152008-09-23T09:55:00.000-07:002008-09-23T09:55:00.000-07:00to stop which one? The bitchy comments or the tell...to stop which one? The bitchy comments or the telling the parents how to ... parent??<BR/><BR/>:PCeci Virtuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01017742688414006937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-134997828889168655.post-78364625456787583052008-09-23T08:31:00.000-07:002008-09-23T08:31:00.000-07:00I'll try to stop.... try i say tryI'll try to stop.... try i say tryUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09601951853780436066noreply@blogger.com